采访地点：中央美术学院美术馆
采访时间：2011年9月20日星期二
被访人：徐冰
采访人：段子迎
段：徐冰老师您好！我们知道您这次参展的艺术品是《何处惹尘埃》，这件作品在欧洲、美国都做了展示，在不同的文化语境中有不同的反应，例如西方人并不太理解中国禅宗的意义，而关注9•11事件本身。您这次将这件作品带到中央美术学院美术馆这样的情景中，期望获得什么不同的回应吗？
徐：其实参加这个展是出于王璜生馆长的邀请，而这件作品同时在纽约曼哈顿的下城展出。这件作品之前从来没有在美国展览过，但是9•11十周年的时候回到纽约展，应该说是很有意义的。而“超有机”这个展览也希望展出这件作品，我们就把这个灰尘分成了两部分，同时进行展出。因为这边的空间并不大，所以还是分开展览。其实这个作品并不是在谈9•11本身，它是在谈人的永恒的、很基本的一个课题，就是说，精神世界和物质世界之间的关系到底是什么样的，到底哪一部分更重要，哪一部分更永恒、更长久、更本质。
段：我发现您的作品令我有一种的疑问，这种疑问在我观看陈界仁先生的作品中同样遇到，那就是：当艺术作品与某具体历史事件联系起来时，很容易被简单地描述、理解或误解，比如您的作品很容易被理解为对9•11事件的纪念，对死伤者的同情等，您是怎样面对这样的问题？
徐：一般来说，这种很重大的事件或者说非常概念化的符号性的东西，艺术是很难面对的。因为事件本身具备了明确的指向和巨大的震撼力。艺术实际上和这样一种震撼以及指向是很难较过劲的。面对这种主题，非常需要艺术家自身的能力。这种较劲在于百分之五十或百分之五十一的较劲，你必须要让你的艺术有多出来的那个“一”，或者说事件或符号本身所没有那个“一”，你才可以去碰触。艺术是用一种非表述性的方式在作用。
段：您在9月5号所写的回应您这件艺术品的文章《9•11从今天起，世界变了》中提示到，最后您用玩具娃娃翻模制作的方式，以粉尘做石膏，然后再磨成粉，充实了作品的主题，表达了“人类不太正常的生存状态”，这种生存状态具体指的是什么呢？
徐：其实不是说因为玩具娃娃造成这种精神状态，实际上是由于这样一种方式，是由于把9•11的灰尘从纽约带到威尔士的这个过程。这个过程中，因为灰尘这种东西是不能出入大陆之间的，所以需要把它做成玩具娃娃这种形式。而这种过程本身可以反映人的生存现实。这个过程与作品本身有很大的关联性，我在制作这个作品的过程中遇到的技术问题实际上和生存的这个世界的状况是发生联系的。所以我把整个过程放到这个关联中，会有更充实的涵义，来探索这个课题。
段：那么您怎样看待美国重建自由塔与纪念地这种国家叙述历史的方式呢？
徐：其实没有想那么多，我在我的文章后面引用了安诸.索罗门一段散文(见注释)，他所说的可以反映我的问题。
段：在您的文章中，还有一个让我困惑的地方，当初美国历史博物馆希望买灰尘，您好像对此表示惊讶。而在后来，您又自己去“认领”被收集起来的纪念物，这是为什么呢？
徐：这两个事情其实并没有什么差异或联系之说。是当时我偶然有一个机会能获得另一块纪念物。事实上，9•11•事件中有100多位华人丧生，对9•11事件的反省并不限于美国自身，而是世界上各个种族、文化、国界之内都在谈论的一个事件，只是角度和立场会有不同。9•11事件确实非常邪恶，但给了人反省自身及社会的机会。这是我所关心的问题。那块9•11的纪念物，我首先要把它运回中国，目前正在程序之中。由于他们只能给我一块，我将我最早的构思进行了改变，但是怎么样来使用这件东西，我觉得是需要慎重的。
段：非常感谢您抽时间接受我的采访。
徐：也谢谢你。
艺讯网记者：段子迎
注： “徐冰在9.11之后虚空的日子里，从下城收集到的这些灰尘，不仅是具有寓意的；它还包含着那个九月的微风中夹带的寻常与不寻常的内容，融汇着那一天所带来的独有颗粒：大楼在倒塌中转化成的粉末，从大楼中散落而出的、如枯叶般的纸片，以及人类质地的灰烬，所有这些在火和力的作用中，融合成一种统一的、永恒的纯粹，并与每日的尘埃混杂在一起。过去10年，关于‘自由塔’以及9.11纪念碑的、冗长而毫无结果的争论中，没有人注意到，其实这座纪念碑早已在那里：就是那些尘埃本身。”——安诸.索罗门
CAFA Art Museum Publication Authorization Agreement
I fully agree to CAFA Art Museum (CAFAM) submitting to CAFA for publication the images, pictures, texts, writings, and event products (such as works created during participation in workshops) related to me from my participation in public events (including museum member events) organized by the CAFA Art Museum Public Education Department. CAFA can publish these materials by electronic, web, or other digital means, and I hereby agree to be included in the China Knowledge Resource Bank, the CAFA Database, the CAFA Art Museum Database, and related data, documentation, and filing institutions and platforms. Regarding their use in CAFA and dissemination on the internet, I agree to make use of these rights according to the stated Rules.
CAFA Art Museum Event Safety Disclaimer
Article I
This event was organized on the principles of fairness, impartiality, and voluntary participation and withdrawal. Participants undertake all risk and liability for themselves. All events have risks, and participants must be aware of the risks related to their chosen event.
Article II
Event participants must abide by the laws and regulations of the People’s Republic of China, as well as moral and ethical norms. All participants must demonstrate good character, respect for others, friendship, and a willingness to help others.
Article III
Event participants should be adults (people 18 years or older with full civil legal capacity). Underage persons must be accompanied by an adult.
Article IV
Event participants undertake all liability for their personal safety during the event, and event participants are encouraged to purchase personal safety insurance. Should an accident occur during an event, persons not involved in the accident and the museum do not undertake any liability for the accident, but both have the obligation to provide assistance. Event participants should actively organize and implement rescue efforts, but do not undertake any legal or economic liability for the accident itself. The museum does not undertake civil or joint liability for the personal safety of event participants.
Article V
During the event, event participants should respect the order of the museum event and ensure the safety of the museum site, the artworks in displays, exhibitions, and collections, and the derived products. If an event causes any degree of loss or damage to the museum site, space, artworks, or derived products due to an individual, persons not involved in the accident and the museum do not undertake any liability for losses. The event participant must negotiate and provide compensation according to the relevant legal statutes and museum rules. The museum may sue for legal and financial liability.
Article VI
Event participants will participate in the event under the guidance of museum staff and event leaders or instructors and must correctly use the painting tools, materials, equipment, and/or facilities provided for the event. If a participant causes injury or harm to him/herself or others while using the painting tools, materials, equipment, and/or facilities, or causes the damage or destruction of the tools, materials, equipment, and/or facilities, the event participant must undertake all related liability and provide compensation for the financial losses. Persons not involved in the accident and the museum do not undertake any liability for personal accidents.
CAFA Art Museum Portraiture Rights Licensing Agreement
According to The Advertising Law of the People’s Republic of China, The General Principles of the Civil Law of the People’s Republic of China, and The Provisional Opinions of the Supreme People’s Court on Some Issues Related to the Full Implementation of the General Principles of the Civil Law of the People’s Republic of China, and upon friendly negotiation, Party A and Party B have arrived at the following agreement regarding the use of works bearing Party A’s image in order to clarify the rights and obligations of the portrait licenser (Party A) and the user (Party B):
I. General Provisions
(1) Party A is the portraiture rights holder in this agreement. Party A voluntarily licenses its portraiture rights to Party B for the purposes stipulated in this agreement and permitted by law.
(2) Party B (CAFA Art Museum) is a specialized, international modern art museum. CAFA Art Museum keeps pace with the times, and works to create an open, free, and academic space and atmosphere for positive interaction with groups, corporations, institutions, artists, and visitors. With CAFA’s academic research as a foundation, the museum plans multi-disciplinary exhibitions, conferences, and public education events with participants from around the world, providing a platform for exchange, learning, and exhibition for CAFA’s students and instructors, artists from around the world, and the general public. As a public institution, the primary purposes of CAFA Art Museum’s public education events are academic and beneficial to society.
(3) Party B will photograph all CAFA Public Education Department events for Party A.
II. Content, Forms of Use, and Geographical Scope of Use
(1) Content. The content of images taken by Party B bearing Party A’s likeness include: ① CAFA Art Museum ② CAFA campus ③ All events planned or executed by the CAFAM Public Education Department.
(2) Forms of Use. For use in CAFA’s publications, products with CDs, and promotional materials.
(3) Geographical Scope of Use
The applicable geographic scope is global.
The media in which the portraiture may be used encompasses any media that does not infringe upon Party A’s portraiture rights (e.g., magazines and the internet).
III. Term of Portraiture Rights Use
Use in perpetuity.
IV. Licensing Fees
The fees for images bearing Party A’s likeness will be undertaken by Party B.
After completion, Party B does not need to pay any fees to Party A for images bearing Party A’s likeness.
Additional Terms
(1) All matters not discussed in this agreement shall be resolved through friendly negotiation between both parties. Both parties may then sign a supplementary agreement, provided it does not violate any laws or regulations.
(2) This agreement comes into effect on the date that it is signed (sealed) and the relevant boxes are selected by Party A and Party B.
(3) This agreement exists in paper and electronic forms. The paper form is made in duplicate, with Party A and Party B each retaining one copy with the same legal efficacy.
Event participants implicitly accept and undertake all the obligations stated in this agreement. Those who do not consent will be seen as abandoning the right to participate in this event. Before participating in this event, please speak to your family members to obtain their consent and inform them of this disclaimer. After participants sign/check the required box, participants and their families will be seen as having read and agreed to these terms.
I have carefully read and agree to the above provisions.
CAFA Art Museum Publication Authorization Agreement
I fully agree to CAFA Art Museum (CAFAM) submitting to CAFA for publication the images, pictures, texts, writings, and event products (such as works created during participation in workshops) related to me from my participation in public events (including museum member events) organized by the CAFA Art Museum Public Education Department. CAFA can publish these materials by electronic, web, or other digital means, and I hereby agree to be included in the China Knowledge Resource Bank, the CAFA Database, the CAFA Art Museum Database, and related data, documentation, and filing institutions and platforms. Regarding their use in CAFA and dissemination on the internet, I agree to make use of these rights according to the stated Rules.
CAFA Art Museum Event Safety Disclaimer
Article I
This event was organized on the principles of fairness, impartiality, and voluntary participation and withdrawal. Participants undertake all risk and liability for themselves. All events have risks, and participants must be aware of the risks related to their chosen event.
Article II
Event participants must abide by the laws and regulations of the People’s Republic of China, as well as moral and ethical norms. All participants must demonstrate good character, respect for others, friendship, and a willingness to help others.
Article III
Event participants should be adults (people 18 years or older with full civil legal capacity). Underage persons must be accompanied by an adult.
Article IV
Event participants undertake all liability for their personal safety during the event, and event participants are encouraged to purchase personal safety insurance. Should an accident occur during an event, persons not involved in the accident and the museum do not undertake any liability for the accident, but both have the obligation to provide assistance. Event participants should actively organize and implement rescue efforts, but do not undertake any legal or economic liability for the accident itself. The museum does not undertake civil or joint liability for the personal safety of event participants.
Article V
During the event, event participants should respect the order of the museum event and ensure the safety of the museum site, the artworks in displays, exhibitions, and collections, and the derived products. If an event causes any degree of loss or damage to the museum site, space, artworks, or derived products due to an individual, persons not involved in the accident and the museum do not undertake any liability for losses. The event participant must negotiate and provide compensation according to the relevant legal statutes and museum rules. The museum may sue for legal and financial liability.
Article VI
Event participants will participate in the event under the guidance of museum staff and event leaders or instructors and must correctly use the painting tools, materials, equipment, and/or facilities provided for the event. If a participant causes injury or harm to him/herself or others while using the painting tools, materials, equipment, and/or facilities, or causes the damage or destruction of the tools, materials, equipment, and/or facilities, the event participant must undertake all related liability and provide compensation for the financial losses. Persons not involved in the accident and the museum do not undertake any liability for personal accidents.
CAFA Art Museum Portraiture Rights Licensing Agreement
According to The Advertising Law of the People’s Republic of China, The General Principles of the Civil Law of the People’s Republic of China, and The Provisional Opinions of the Supreme People’s Court on Some Issues Related to the Full Implementation of the General Principles of the Civil Law of the People’s Republic of China, and upon friendly negotiation, Party A and Party B have arrived at the following agreement regarding the use of works bearing Party A’s image in order to clarify the rights and obligations of the portrait licenser (Party A) and the user (Party B):
I. General Provisions
(1) Party A is the portraiture rights holder in this agreement. Party A voluntarily licenses its portraiture rights to Party B for the purposes stipulated in this agreement and permitted by law.
(2) Party B (CAFA Art Museum) is a specialized, international modern art museum. CAFA Art Museum keeps pace with the times, and works to create an open, free, and academic space and atmosphere for positive interaction with groups, corporations, institutions, artists, and visitors. With CAFA’s academic research as a foundation, the museum plans multi-disciplinary exhibitions, conferences, and public education events with participants from around the world, providing a platform for exchange, learning, and exhibition for CAFA’s students and instructors, artists from around the world, and the general public. As a public institution, the primary purposes of CAFA Art Museum’s public education events are academic and beneficial to society.
(3) Party B will photograph all CAFA Public Education Department events for Party A.
II. Content, Forms of Use, and Geographical Scope of Use
(1) Content. The content of images taken by Party B bearing Party A’s likeness include: ① CAFA Art Museum ② CAFA campus ③ All events planned or executed by the CAFAM Public Education Department.
(2) Forms of Use. For use in CAFA’s publications, products with CDs, and promotional materials.
(3) Geographical Scope of Use
The applicable geographic scope is global.
The media in which the portraiture may be used encompasses any media that does not infringe upon Party A’s portraiture rights (e.g., magazines and the internet).
III. Term of Portraiture Rights Use
Use in perpetuity.
IV. Licensing Fees
The fees for images bearing Party A’s likeness will be undertaken by Party B.
After completion, Party B does not need to pay any fees to Party A for images bearing Party A’s likeness.
Additional Terms
(1) All matters not discussed in this agreement shall be resolved through friendly negotiation between both parties. Both parties may then sign a supplementary agreement, provided it does not violate any laws or regulations.
(2) This agreement comes into effect on the date that it is signed (sealed) and the relevant boxes are selected by Party A and Party B.
(3) This agreement exists in paper and electronic forms. The paper form is made in duplicate, with Party A and Party B each retaining one copy with the same legal efficacy.
Event participants implicitly accept and undertake all the obligations stated in this agreement. Those who do not consent will be seen as abandoning the right to participate in this event. Before participating in this event, please speak to your family members to obtain their consent and inform them of this disclaimer. After participants sign/check the required box, participants and their families will be seen as having read and agreed to these terms.
I have carefully read and agree to the above provisions.
CAFA Art Museum Publication Authorization Agreement
I fully agree to CAFA Art Museum (CAFAM) submitting to CAFA for publication the images, pictures, texts, writings, and event products (such as works created during participation in workshops) related to me from my participation in public events (including museum member events) organized by the CAFA Art Museum Public Education Department. CAFA can publish these materials by electronic, web, or other digital means, and I hereby agree to be included in the China Knowledge Resource Bank, the CAFA Database, the CAFA Art Museum Database, and related data, documentation, and filing institutions and platforms. Regarding their use in CAFA and dissemination on the internet, I agree to make use of these rights according to the stated Rules.
CAFA Art Museum Event Safety Disclaimer
Article I
This event was organized on the principles of fairness, impartiality, and voluntary participation and withdrawal. Participants undertake all risk and liability for themselves. All events have risks, and participants must be aware of the risks related to their chosen event.
Article II
Event participants must abide by the laws and regulations of the People’s Republic of China, as well as moral and ethical norms. All participants must demonstrate good character, respect for others, friendship, and a willingness to help others.
Article III
Event participants should be adults (people 18 years or older with full civil legal capacity). Underage persons must be accompanied by an adult.
Article IV
Event participants undertake all liability for their personal safety during the event, and event participants are encouraged to purchase personal safety insurance. Should an accident occur during an event, persons not involved in the accident and the museum do not undertake any liability for the accident, but both have the obligation to provide assistance. Event participants should actively organize and implement rescue efforts, but do not undertake any legal or economic liability for the accident itself. The museum does not undertake civil or joint liability for the personal safety of event participants.
Article V
During the event, event participants should respect the order of the museum event and ensure the safety of the museum site, the artworks in displays, exhibitions, and collections, and the derived products. If an event causes any degree of loss or damage to the museum site, space, artworks, or derived products due to an individual, persons not involved in the accident and the museum do not undertake any liability for losses. The event participant must negotiate and provide compensation according to the relevant legal statutes and museum rules. The museum may sue for legal and financial liability.
Article VI
Event participants will participate in the event under the guidance of museum staff and event leaders or instructors and must correctly use the painting tools, materials, equipment, and/or facilities provided for the event. If a participant causes injury or harm to him/herself or others while using the painting tools, materials, equipment, and/or facilities, or causes the damage or destruction of the tools, materials, equipment, and/or facilities, the event participant must undertake all related liability and provide compensation for the financial losses. Persons not involved in the accident and the museum do not undertake any liability for personal accidents.
CAFA Art Museum Portraiture Rights Licensing Agreement
According to The Advertising Law of the People’s Republic of China, The General Principles of the Civil Law of the People’s Republic of China, and The Provisional Opinions of the Supreme People’s Court on Some Issues Related to the Full Implementation of the General Principles of the Civil Law of the People’s Republic of China, and upon friendly negotiation, Party A and Party B have arrived at the following agreement regarding the use of works bearing Party A’s image in order to clarify the rights and obligations of the portrait licenser (Party A) and the user (Party B):
I. General Provisions
(1) Party A is the portraiture rights holder in this agreement. Party A voluntarily licenses its portraiture rights to Party B for the purposes stipulated in this agreement and permitted by law.
(2) Party B (CAFA Art Museum) is a specialized, international modern art museum. CAFA Art Museum keeps pace with the times, and works to create an open, free, and academic space and atmosphere for positive interaction with groups, corporations, institutions, artists, and visitors. With CAFA’s academic research as a foundation, the museum plans multi-disciplinary exhibitions, conferences, and public education events with participants from around the world, providing a platform for exchange, learning, and exhibition for CAFA’s students and instructors, artists from around the world, and the general public. As a public institution, the primary purposes of CAFA Art Museum’s public education events are academic and beneficial to society.
(3) Party B will photograph all CAFA Public Education Department events for Party A.
II. Content, Forms of Use, and Geographical Scope of Use
(1) Content. The content of images taken by Party B bearing Party A’s likeness include: ① CAFA Art Museum ② CAFA campus ③ All events planned or executed by the CAFAM Public Education Department.
(2) Forms of Use. For use in CAFA’s publications, products with CDs, and promotional materials.
(3) Geographical Scope of Use
The applicable geographic scope is global.
The media in which the portraiture may be used encompasses any media that does not infringe upon Party A’s portraiture rights (e.g., magazines and the internet).
III. Term of Portraiture Rights Use
Use in perpetuity.
IV. Licensing Fees
The fees for images bearing Party A’s likeness will be undertaken by Party B.
After completion, Party B does not need to pay any fees to Party A for images bearing Party A’s likeness.
Additional Terms
(1) All matters not discussed in this agreement shall be resolved through friendly negotiation between both parties. Both parties may then sign a supplementary agreement, provided it does not violate any laws or regulations.
(2) This agreement comes into effect on the date that it is signed (sealed) and the relevant boxes are selected by Party A and Party B.
(3) This agreement exists in paper and electronic forms. The paper form is made in duplicate, with Party A and Party B each retaining one copy with the same legal efficacy.
Event participants implicitly accept and undertake all the obligations stated in this agreement. Those who do not consent will be seen as abandoning the right to participate in this event. Before participating in this event, please speak to your family members to obtain their consent and inform them of this disclaimer. After participants sign/check the required box, participants and their families will be seen as having read and agreed to these terms.
I have carefully read and agree to the above provisions.
